the all new Z06 - Page 3

LateNightCable · 12-12-04, 10:49 PM

I'm not a Viper afficianado, but I'm pretty sure the original 8.0 V10 was not entirely developed by Lamborghini. They simply converted the iron truck motor that Chrysler gave them into a performance engine. I don't believe the Viper team was even satisfied with Lamboghini's interpretation, and ended up reworking it themselves after all.

Anyway, it doesn't reflect well on the manufacturer, especially one with as many resources as GM, to not have things done in-house. The ZO6 is after all supposed to represent Corvette, and to an extent GM's own performance know how. Not who they happen to have in their Roledex.

As for the link Westside provided, nobody mods their car as an investment. Most of the time it'll just devalue the car in relation to what was put into it.

wEstSide · 12-12-04, 10:51 PM

Very ture LNC, but I posted it just to show you guys an example of an LS7 with the C5R block in a Corvette.

Metfanant · 12-13-04, 04:21 PM

oh polar fox if you only knew what you were talking about you would be danerous....

...starting with the Z06...this is all speculation...for all you know my little brother made up these stats and put them out on the web...whoever told someone it might have 900hp...you should go visit them with a brick in your hand and hit them with it...2nd i doubt it is going to weigh in at 3000lbs and have the 7L with all that performance upgrades...because that will push the price tag up around the Viper and then you take the whole idea of the Vette and throw it out the window....

....now onto polar...you say the fact that GM got 500 whatever hp from a 7L proves that they are better engineers than those that build the rickity 500hp Viper motor....stupidity...plain and simple. you obviously understand zilch about motor design....the Viper doesnt make 500hp because thats all they could get...it makes 500 hp because thats all the needed to get. look at the SRT-10 Carban concept...same motor as the regular SRT-10 but makes 625hp....hmm gee thats a lot more than this new Z06...and btw if you really knew the story of how the Viper motor was built you would know that Chrysler contacted Lamborghini to build the motor...lambo built the motor but the motor was too peaky and basically constantly fell apart...so Dodge SCRAPPED the lamborghini motor...basically the only thing the Viper motor shared with the Lambo motor was what it looked like...Dodge liked the way it looked so they kept that...as far as the internals of the motor that was all in the end built by dodge internally...do some research before spouting nonsense...

thepolarfoxqx · 12-13-04, 07:32 PM

oh c'mon, i know a little more than you give me credit for. When I say they can't get more power out of it, i mean more power out of it without it become unreliable, unpleasant, and too high maintanance. I could talk for a long time about why the 7.0L is able to make as much power as the 8.3L. The 8.3 will always make more torque, it's just engine design. First, lambo wasn't contracted, when viper was developed, chrysler owned lamborghini. Second, the lambo viper v10 wasn't thrown out, the first viper engines were built in italy by lambo while dodge was getting north american assembly for that motor ready. Kinda like what chevy did with ZR-1, they had lotus work with them on the heads and had mercruiser do the assembly of the engine because they had an aluminum fabrication facility capable of that motor with excess capacity, GM did not at the time. My comment about GM's engineering being better was sarcasm, I think that the LS7 is a better designed motor than dodge's 8.3 from an engineering standpoint, but overall, i think both leave something to be desired in terms of overall efficiency. The 2-valve a cylender design is outdated, and more can be done with 4-valve engines, that said, if these engines work, i'm not going to argue. I don't know the specs for sure. I've read 500hp from a number of reliable sources. I was merely discrediting the person who said 900, because that is total BS. It is stupid, and since i can't hit him in the face with a brick for being ignorant, i'll just explain it. I don't see it weighing 3000lbs, 3,300 - maybe, but if they get it down to 3000, it's going to be likely missing something you'll notice. I don't think the 7.0L will weight that much more, i'm fairly certain they probably just stroked, or maybe bored and stroked the LS2, that way they could keep as much of it the same as possible. To credit dodge, the new 8.3L V10, which is much better than its predecessor, was nearly totally developed in north america. I'd like to see a pumped up hemi-v8 in viper, or maybe crossfire, just so dodge could have a hemi V8 powered sports car to go up against vette, but if the V10 works, i guess it works.

LateNightCable · 12-13-04, 07:49 PM

There was never a question that Lamborghini was owned by Chrysler at the time of the Viper V10 inception, and the first ones may have been built in Italy - to Chrysler engineer specs, but it's worth noting that the original Viper and it's engine were developed on a very tight budget, ( we're talking the possibility of using suspension parts from the Dakota pickup, until they came to the conclusion they would need something more specialized ) without a great deal of inside support. The Viper is legendary now, so you bet the 8.3 got a lot of financing.

Before relegating both the LS7 and the Viper's V10 to outdated status, it should be acknowledged that all large pushrod motors to some degree are torque motors. This is their primary benefit. Personally, I don't see them as inferior or outdated to smaller, high revving units. But when a tried and true design works, you use it.

A Hemi V8 will never land in a production Viper, but Chrysler could deffinitely use the Hemi in the Crossfire, or some future musclecar. The ZO6 won't weight 3,000 lbs. unless it's completely stripped, and that won't happen. And I agree, the LS7 is most likely stroked, and maybe bored. There would be no point for a whole new block.

Metfanant · 12-13-04, 08:40 PM

read the book Dodge Viper it is written by the guys in charge...ill post a large quotation from it when i find it but basically the Lamborghini built motors were not used because they were unreliable. Lamborghinis motors could not stay together for the dyno testing chrysler put the motors through before putting them in the cars. It is also funny when people call the pushrod motor outdated when the OHC motor was designed before the OHV motor....a Hemi V8 would be a bad idea to put in the Viper for a couple reasons. First of all the new Hemi is, is a marketing ploy. The Hemispherical cumbostion chamber offers no advantage over DOHC motors, and little over todays OHV engines as well.

LateNightCable · 12-13-04, 09:07 PM

The Hemi may be marketing, but it's still cheaper than DOHC, while offering a least competitive performance. And it's a V8 from Chrylser for once, isn't that nice to know?

Metfanant, they should give you a percentage of the profits from every copy of the book Dodge Viper sold. You've mentioned it enough.

Metfanant · 12-15-04, 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LateNightCable

The Hemi may be marketing, but it's still cheaper than DOHC, while offering a least competitive performance. And it's a V8 from Chrylser for once, isn't that nice to know?

Metfanant, they should give you a percentage of the profits from every copy of the book Dodge Viper sold. You've mentioned it enough.

haha....they should....and i should own half of Bassani exhaust for as much as i plug them to fellow mustang owners but it just doesnt work out lol

thepolarfoxqx · 12-15-04, 06:35 PM

I said use the hemi because it's competitive and flexible in a way the old 360 never was. the viper was a rough edged car for a long time, which was funding thing. Dollar for dollar, they didn't do bad. Viper is getting better, but it's got a hell of a challenge in the new Z06. the LS7 archetecture is pretty cutting edge for pushrod design. I say pushrod is old fashion, because sophisticated 4 valve DOHC motors didn't really appear until the 70s, and DOHC motors make more torque per litre too. They don't get a surge off idle the way pushrods do, but they make more torque, and wind higher as well. It's just a better design. More expesnive and complex, yes, but better.

wEstSide · 01-25-05, 12:03 AM

http://www.chevrolet.com/corvettez06/

The official Z06 site.