American Hot Rod Vs Euro Supercar

[qramos]

For most of my life my freinds have had Ferraris, Porche, and Jaguar V12 cars. But I recently purchased a 1967 Ford mustang and outgunned them all for 1/2 the cost and far more style and attitude. After seeing the power that my mustang gets to the rear wheels, I have asked myself.. "why would someone spend so much on a unreliable Supercar when you can get one like mine for less money, and more reliability?" Are there any replies? Maybe it is because few supercar owners have ever tried out a nice hot rod. They handle great, stop fast, and make lamborghinis look slow in a drag race. One of the things I like the most about my mustang is the sound!! Just the raspy, lumpy rumble of the v-8 is enough to make your skin crawl!!

Check out the link to see this mustang.
http://www.sandersonsales.com/images...erformance.htm

Here is the high performance edition.
http://www.sandersonsales.com/images...supersnake.htm

[skyline_r34v]

Well since u don't have a Shelby GT500 or especially a GT500E.
For one thing, (mostly) all american cars and even supercars r only good on the str8's and that's it. (in exception of GT40/Ford GT/Saleen S7)
Lambo's, Porsche's and Jag's weren't purposely built for drag strips, they were meant 2 be track driven. U have a Mustang and they have exotics, plz don't even compare them to say ur mustang is better than ne of them. Hell i outrun evo's and porsche's with my eclipse but it's noway in hell better than a Porsche.

Originally Posted by qramos I have asked myself.. "why would someone spend so much on a unreliable Supercar when you can get one like mine for less money, and more reliability?"

Since when have Supercars's been unreliable? Yeah it's VERY costly when u break suffin but u only break suffin on a Supercar when ur tryin 2 break suffin. So don't try 2 break nething or run ur car ragged and it won't break. The parts are very expensive are durable but not unbreakable.
U treat nearly ne car right and it'll treat u right back unless u get a lemon of course.

Originally Posted by qramos They handle great, stop fast, and make lamborghinis look slow in a drag race.

Well, hot rod's handled from decent to gr8 back in the Muscle Car Era but most every hot rod still alive today would get out-handled by an economy car now. Even the Plymouth SuperBird and Shelby GT-series and Dodge Challenger R/T Hemi's were the best handling cars back in the day they aren't newhere near impressive in handlin for today's standards. (Except the Shelby GT-series IMO)

Originally Posted by qramos One of the things I like the most about my mustang is the sound!! Just the raspy, lumpy rumble of the v-8 is enough to make your skin crawl!!

If ur mustang sounds raspy then that seems to me like u have a "riced" V8 sound instead of the usual ricer, raspy 4-cylinder sound. Never heard of muscle cars soundin raspy unless they have a wrong type of muffler on their car.

[qramos]

Well since u don't have a Shelby GT500 or especially a GT500E. For one thing, (mostly) all american cars and even supercars r only good on the str8's and that's it.

You are right. I agree that most American hot rods, excepting some you mentioned and I would add, almost any of the cobra series, are not well adept for track use. A mustang in itse original suspension componentry suffered from terrible bump steer, tramlining, and poor balance. It did not compare well to a 500 series BMW or even an e-series Merc. But my comment was not about how well they handled, but how well MY car handles. I have had almost a complete suspension swap to a track setup that contains tubular components, rack and pinion and adjustablea everything. It has a trackbrake kit that has four piston calipers. It handles better than my freinds supra. I admit it does not handle better than another freind's porche though., but it has a good street ride though.

Regarding reliability, the friend I mentioned who owns the Porche has also owned a couple other porches, a ferrari 328, and a Jag xjs. To begin with, the Jag was the worst. He had thatthingin the shop every few months it seemed. That is the reason he got rid of it. His Ferarri 328broke a few days after he bought it. Ferrari has great warranty complianceand they sent a couple mechanis to go and fix it where it had broken down. It had blown a water gasket or a hose or something like that. He says it didn't give him a whole lot of problems after that except for the transmission which did not want to go into gear with the clutch fully depresed. ABout his proche...he nearly got killedin an accident with his son when his shock went bad and he spun and flipped the car off the road. Porche investigated the car and found the front shock to be defective. Porche, also good about their warranties offered to replace the car, but he opted toget a refund of his money. Now if you ask me, those are reliability issues, not overstressed parts we are talking about. I haveonly had my mustang for six months, but Ihave not had any problems with it AT ALL even whenI take it to the autocross. The only thing that has happened to it is that I lost a header bolt . And that is not beacuse the engine is poorly balanced, the entire rotating assembly was balanced to a tolerance of one gram. That is just because of thermal expansion.

If ur mustang sounds raspy then that seems to me like u have a "riced" V8 sound instead of the usual ricer, raspy 4-cylinder sound. Never heard of muscle cars soundin raspy unless they have a wrong type of muffler on their car.

My engine was very well built from the block up. This is NOT a riced engine. Everything about the engine was built using quality parts. The heads are Victor series aluminum heads with titanium valves and retainers. Note that mostsupercarsdon'teven use titanium valves. THe pistons are hypereutectic aluminum. the heads and intake and headers are all port matched. Oil flow throught the engine is screened to ensure even distribution to every bearing. Everything down to the bolts in this engine are specialized components that have all been chosen to work together tomake a usable powerband and torque curve. . So you say, " you jusst have a large displacement." No Idon't!! I have a 289 that has been increaseed to aproxamately 330 CI. That is not that big. Its a small block and doesn't weight that much. Imight agree with you if I had a 427 big block like the GT500 that weight so much. That is why I chose to go with a small block. THe only place where where my engine does not compare well is in compression ration. It is at exactly 12:1 where most Ferrari engines are closer to 10.5:1, ENzo being exculded at 11.2:1. If my mustang sounds raspy because it is riced up, then a ferrari must come riced from the factory, it usually sounds raspy too.

Every Porche I have ever been in suffered from wheel hop in hard launches. Is this the kind of drivetrain excellence you would expect in a car that expensive. I get NO WHEEL HOP unless the car is full of people and I get complete traction on a hard launch. And even at that is is less than the Porche.

don't even compare them to say ur mustang is better than ne of them.

Alright, I will concede. I have to admit that my mustang Definately DOES NOt COMPARE in terms of engineering integration as a whole. In a ferrari or Porche, it all seems to fit together like a jigsaw puzzle: Perfect. But that is the only thing I can find that truly outclasses my mustang. My question was not wheather my car compared to these in terms of fit and finish, obviously it is outclassed. My question was why would someone pay so much money for fit and finish when you can get outstanding engineering, performance, and style for far less, and yes,I still stand, greater reliability. Is there something else that I am not seeing that is better than mine?

[LateNightCable]

Hello Gramos, welcome to Carpassion. You sound like you have a great ride. But first off, lets get real. I would say that your Mustang is indeed pretty " exotic " in it's own right, with near six-figures invested into it or more I would imagine. Also, we're talking about a car that uses 35 year old technology - but with a modern twist.

Anyone who would choose such a car, would have a lot to be happy about. It's really fast, handles pretty well, sounds great, and has loads of charictor - with modern rubber and suspension bits, it might even grip the road like it's on rails. It's simply an alternative to something more expensive and much more modern. Classic musclecars, tuned up with modern racing parts have a whole lot to give. One would definitely have to have a taste for the raw and the old. Of course not everyone does, so this is why they are willing to spend much more on a modern exotic along with the fancy power amenities. Plus, going to buy a Ferrari right off the showroom floor is a lot simpler than sifting through parts catalogs deciding how you're going to trick out your Mustang - This would be a labor of love by the real car enthusiest. Perhaps the Mustang flavor just suits you best and not your friends.

I would not say that most exotics are unreliable though, not anymore. But they are not particularly durable either. Exotics are made up of very sensitive systems that require much attention - just like a racecar. For example, you would not want to drag race a four-wheel drive Murcielago too much or something would bust. This is a track car, it would be way out of it's element.

As for what " raspy " really sounds like, this is a matter of opinion. I guess it would depend on what is rasping. The intake maybe?

In closing, feel no shame when you show up in your Mustang. For, in some categories, you could run with the modern exotics. Or maybe even take them to school. Not bad for an antique.

[skyline_r34v]

Never said u built a "riced" engine. I said if it SOUNDS raspy then it would be kinda "riced" domestic.
See wat i'm sayin.

[Metfanant]

"THe pistons are hypereutectic aluminum"

DOH!...you mean like the STOCK late model 5.0 motor cars??...hyper pistons are JUNK compared to the forged stuff that came in the early Fox cars....


I drive a 1994 GT and you better have some SERIOUS work done since your running Victor series heads....


Anthony

[qramos]

DOH!...you mean like the STOCK late model 5.0 motor cars??...hyper pistons are JUNK compared to the forged stuff that came in the early Fox cars....

I think you are a little confused on the variation and uses for hyper pistons. By the way, Stock hyper are junk in most cases, not because the alloy is bad, but because they lack the T6 heat treatment....THere is a reason several engine builders choose hypers for High revving NA engines. For one, they have a much higher rate for thermal expasion than hypers do. The reduced thermal expansion rate of the T6 treated, 390 alloy-based pistons allows the piston to be run with reduced clearance, which is desirable in high lift/duration cam timing, and high compression engines like mine. A tight piston is less likely to rock, or burn oil. A rocking piston wears rings and increases blow-bye.
THe other main reason that I used hypers is that they are more rigid and significantly lighter than forged ones. Less reciprocating weight makes a rather large difference in the responsiveness and durability of the main rotating assembly. The forged piston requires thick skirts to achieve comparable piston rigidity. A rigid piston rocks less in the cylinder and improves ring seal.
Now If I were spraying or boosting, this would be bad news because the pistons are more brittle. You can stand a mountain on them in NA applications, but are not suitable where detonation is of concern because they tend to shatter when detonation is a problem. But if you are not risking detonating, they are a better choice due to their lightweight.
Lastly these are anything but stock pistons. THey are made by the number one supplier of of top fuel and professional dragrace blocks and pistons: IE Keith Black. Make use of every last bit of flow from those heads, by the way with my x303 cam. At the cost of a bit of low-end and driveability admitedly.

[skyline_r34v]

uhhhhh riiiiiiiiiiiiight we'll jus let ya'll 2 carry this out 4 now on.

[qramos]

Hey, thanks for your comments skyline and late night..

[Metfanant]

come on...your gonna try and tell my some hyper pistons are better than a nice set of forged ones...come on man...im a believer that hyper pistons are not as bad as people say they are but there is 1 reason and 1 reason only that ford switched from Forged to hyper, and thats cuz the hypers are just plain cheaper....you let you engine builder spout off his nonsense and then regurgitate it here...


Anthony