Ford GT vs. Viper SRT-10

[Seb]

One more thing to say.

The new GT got the Swedish Lysholm supercharger.
www.lysholm.se
Car have excellent tuning capacity. Wich we probobly will see in the future.

Also seen some quite cheap works with supercharging the Viper engine. Still with the stock bottom(high compression) and low pressure and make 800rwhp. But still such a conversion costs $15k+. And that engine can make 700hk+ without charging.

If i would rebuild the viper engine. I would have destroke the engine alot. To be able to rev the engine higher. Car allready got great bore for V10. Added a centrifugal supercharger wich works good with high revs. The turbo is realy overated you need to rebuild the headers for turbo. Just alot of work.

[Metfanant]

turbos are the way to go period, on any car really. A properly built turbo system will always make more power, and be more effiecient than a supercharger. This is because to run a supercharger you need to run a belt off the motors crank to turn the compressor. This does 2 things...adds unneeded stress on the crank, and causes parastitic loss(it takes power to turn the blower, therefore negating some of the power gained by the supercharger). Not to mention it is much harder to design an intercooler into a supercharger system than a tyurbo system. Now, the turbos use exhaust gases to turn the compressor, therefore, they do not put extra strain on the crank, or suffer from parastitic loss. Turbo systems are also much easier to play with. Boost changes are just as easy as turning a knob, while with a blower, you need to get a different belt, take the old one off, put the new one on, tighten it up etc...


....Moral of story TURBOS ARE BETTER...


Anthony

[LateNightCable]

I agree that turbos are a much more suitable option in most cases, but the talk of drag that a supercharger creates brings to my mind the system used by Mercedes-Benz for AMG. The engine computer monitors load and speed, and calculates when to engage an electro-magnetic clutch connected to the supercharger drive belt. So under light loads, or below 2,700 rpm. the engine runs naturally asperated. And when the clutch system engages, the charger comes in with boost seamlessly. This is a pretty trick ( and probably expensive ) feature, but it shows how the drawbacks of a supercharger can at least be lessened.

[Metfanant]

Originally Posted by LateNightCable I agree that turbos are a much more suitable option in most cases, but the talk of drag that a supercharger creates brings to my mind the system used by Mercedes-Benz for AMG. The engine computer monitors load and speed, and calculates when to engage an electro-magnetic clutch connected to the supercharger drive belt. So under light loads, or below 2,700 rpm. the engine runs naturally asperated. And when the clutch system engages, the charger comes in with boost seamlessly. This is a pretty trick ( and probably expensive ) feature, but it shows how the drawbacks of a supercharger can at least be lessened.

lessened yes for sure, but how practical is that for the average s/c'er manufacturer? how much more expensive would that make their kits? would a vortech kit for a 5.0 mustang go from $3k to $4k?? is it worth it???

Anthony

[LateNightCable]

It would only be practical where cost were not an option, or until the technology trickled down and became cheaper and more widely used. They use this in Mercedes AMG cars, so a certain degree of high sophistication is expected by the market along with blazing performance. Whereas, the average gear head I doubt cares too much about sophistication, at least not at the expense of low cost. They just want power.

Those who want their power right there all the time will choose an SC regardless. But improvements in Turbo, in regards to lag have made turbos a very appealing option.

[Metfanant]

actually a properly sized turbo will create full boost BEFORE a centrifugal supercharger....a centrifugal supercharger(vortech, paxton, powerdyne,procharger) build boost as the RPMS climb....screw types(kenne bell) and roots type(eaton) are always cranking at full tilt so they give the benefit of instant boost, but that is not that case with centrifugal superchargers(contrary to popular belief)....like I said a properly sized turbo will achieve instant boost around 2500 rpms which makes them truly ideal for any application. A car like the Viper could even benefit from a slightly oversized turbo because the car creates enough torque down low to get the car out of the hole, and then as the turbo kicks in up top(oversized would mean a little lag) it would help the viper accelerate in the upper RPMS. Turbo lag is a thing of the past, and is truly a myth in todays applications, assuming you know what your doing when selecting the right turbo for your car...


Anthony

[skyline_r34v]

It all depends on the car's engine really. Just like the 3g eclipse's, the turbo is the worst option.
Turbo's IMO are nowhere near as efficient as SDS's. Turbo's produce lag STILL with boost creep and SDS's cause lil to no lag at all.
Turbo's u hafta wait til boost kicks in order to get power, with SDS's it's there when u need it.
Reliability goes with the SDS's, turbo's aren't a reliable source of power.

All-in-All, if you want instant boost and instant power get the SDS's. On *SOME* NOT all but on sum they don't make as much power as turbo's but to ppl (like me) value reliability and instant power rather than more power.

If u want more power *in some cases* with a nice kick in the seat in order to "feel" the power u have under the hood and u don't care much for reliability, then the turbo is obviously ur choice.

My take is, if u havva naturally aspirated car, i'd go with a supercharger. Cuz it's more reliable for ur engine that's NOT made for forced induction and will give u the amount of power u want WITH the reliability u want as well.

If u havva car that uses forced induction (any type) from the factory, then obviously u'd want to use a turbo for being able to gain alot more power cuz the engine would already be sumwat reliable since it's already made for forced induction.

[Metfanant]

turbos are just as reliable as as any other power adder on the market today. its all in the tuning. Its superchargers that add extra stress on the crank from the blower belt, and its more difficult to design a intercooler into the system to allow for proper cooling of charge temps... And like i said a properly sized turbocharger will produce no lag at all. If you consider lag full boost at 2500rpms or so then fine but IMO that is far from lag. Like ive said its actually centrifugal superchargers that build boost as the RPMS climb, and not turbos. Boost creep and crank walk are effects of a poorly designed engine, not a problem with turbos. Just like how Twin Turbo RX-7's blow up all the time because they would run lean and blow the apex seals. Not because they were turbocharged, but because the motor was weakly designed....



Anthony

[skyline_r34v]

I'm trying to tell u, yes NE sort of FI whether using nitrous oxide, SDS or turbo, tuning means everything.
Prove to me, i've YET seen a single turbo'd car that lasts longer than a SDS car.
SDS do not build boost until u shove ur foot down on the accelerator.
So unless u keep ur foot pressed against the pedal when ur going 500rpms then ur jus askin 2 replace ur gas every 3-4 days.
All turbo's create lag, no matter the properly sized turbo. U know that turbo's run by exhaust and exhaust gas will NEVER be consistent and NEVER be available right when u need it all the time.

I don't know wat other SDS for honda, acura, chevy etc etc include intercoolers or not but with our 3g eclipses IC's actually HURT the performance of the car and so r replaced with a water/methanol injection kit.

[Metfanant]

intercoolers may hurt the performance on a supercharged engine only in the case that the piping to the intercooler would have to run all out of the way to get there....intercoolers just cool the charge temps...they dont raise power levels or anything like that...if a turbo car doesnt last as long then its not setup properly, its not the turbos fault....


Anthony