Cadillac CTS-V -- an M car beater?

jterp · 02-02-04, 07:01 PM

New C&D has an article comparing the new 400 hp Cadillac CTS-V to both the M3 and the M5. I haven't had a chance to read it yet but hopefully will tonight.. What does anyone think of the CTS-V? any chance of chipping into the M car market?

mv · 02-02-04, 09:16 PM

i suspect the price will be its strong side.

jterp · 02-02-04, 10:08 PM

From what I gathered from the article (quick glance) it is fater than the M3 but not as fast as the M5 -- price is like an M3 (52K US)

LateNightCable · 02-02-04, 11:39 PM

The CTS-V is a fine car, and with it's LS-6 V8 producing 400 hp. ( down 5 from the Corvette ZO6 ) and 395 lb.ft. of torque, it has the power to compete with the M3, and in some ways the no longer built M5. At around $50,000 it is of comparable price to the M3. The engine also manages to have a more " refined " charactor here than in the ZO6.

It isn't the best example of what the " art and science " design approach could be, particularly from the rear, but it's not bad looking by any means. I'm sure there are some who would still never consider a Caddy over an M car or AMG. I don't think it will cut into M car sales too much, but more along the lines of Lincoln LS and Some Jags' and Lexus. I doubt BMW will ever have a problem finding homes for all the M cars they care to build. But I think the V will cut out a little niche for itself.

The Cadillac CTS-V is a good starting point for GM's new in-house performance branch. If it takes off, we will no doubt see others like it, and more of them.

* Sophisticated Interior - It reflects cool Euro sensibilities, not American ones, and the center of the steering wheel is shaped like a thong, but the subdued, driver oriented vibe is fitting. The aluminum fixtures, like the pedals are a sporting touch.

* Genuine stainless steel mesh grill - I really appreciate quality touches like this. You won't find this on any current M car. It's not only a throwback to Cadillac's early years, but it also gives the car a much greater element of substance than it would have otherwise. Something missing badly from most modern cars. It's also one of those simple things we shouldn't have to fight for.

jterp · 02-05-04, 06:45 PM

C&D article was kind of disappointing -- they had some problems with the caddy that prevented them from running it as hard as it could be run. (Before anyone comes back with generic 'American build quality' comments I remind you of the engine self destructions on the first run E46 m3's) Regardless - the caddy performed right in the middle of the two cars -- C&D commented that it was more like the M5 than the M3 -- that caddy would not be a direct competitor for someone considering the M3. They said they preferred the M5 -- but just slightly and certainly not $23,000 more (the difference in price between the M5 and CTS-V)
Even with software calibration problems the caddy managed to post times to 100 and 140 faster than the M3. Its lap time was 1 second slower than the M3 but 1 second faster than the M5. It posted a best of the group stat on the 300 ft skidpad -- .90g (with a leakinf front tire that as CD reported, could have caused it to perform worse than normal) Since we're all so big on refinement here, CD preferred the interior of the Caddy over either of the M cars, calling BMW's styling 'aging and outdated'

The long and the short of it is that most people who buy these cars aren't going to notice the difference in performance between them. The caddy, like the M5, is something that you will most likely never see being taken to the racetrack (anyone looking for track time would most likely choose the M3 if any of these). Although there are a few bugs that still need to be worked out, I am thoroughly impressed with the CTS-V and am PROUD to have it produced by an American company -- It seems that word is finally getting to detroit on what Americans want

LateNightCable · 02-05-04, 07:01 PM

When I here something judged as " aging " or " outdated ", I find it kind of stupid. Is the car getting wrinkles? Is the butt starting to sag? No, whats' really going on is that some fickle person, somewhere is getting bored. If an interior is perfectly functional, and tastefully executed, it is timeless.

The CTS-V will be a good car, although I don't think it's wise to sacrifice the brand integrity of the Cadillac name by posing as " European " once again. Because the basic truth is, what Americans really want is anything you care to shove down their throat, so long as you do it up right, and market it well. That may sound harsh, but it's the truth. The raving masses are screaming to be given a preference. Individuals have their own preferences, but the human race as a whole needs a lot of proper guidance, especially in the age of " bling bling ".

Cadillac could build a tail-finned, chromed out wonder, with less Euro appeal than Spam, and if they believed in that product enough, and had the masculine balls to go their own damn route, they would find that they, once again were the trend setters, instead of the followers. The winning spirit breeds winners.

jterp · 02-05-04, 09:56 PM

outdated and aging were their words -- not mine.

When I spoke about what we want, I didnt mean the masses -- I meant the enthusiasts -- those of us who couldnt buy an american car in the 90's because there was nothing to buy. My grandfather up until 1992 bought a new cadillac every three years -- He is still driving his '92 cadillac today because after '92 he could no longer get RWD -- he was just turned off - there were no nice v-8, rwd american luxury cars. -- Caddy is getting the picture and finally filling that market again -- I am happy about that.
Yes, marketing wins over the masses -- that is why the american companies are still around today following the FWD debacle called the '90's ... The enthusiast has been hibernating for about 15-20 years though, and is finally able to wake up.

djfux69 · 02-06-04, 01:00 AM

im not a big fan of the styling, but im impressed with the stats. it wil be interesting to see how it does.

LateNightCable · 02-06-04, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jterp

outdated and aging were their words -- not mine.

I know, I'm just stating how much magazine writers need to shut up.

thepolarfoxqx · 02-25-04, 02:52 AM

the styling on that car says "i'm a reject from the metal shop in hell", but the V8 says something else. It will be a solid performance value. in terms of size, it is closer to an M5 than an M3, new M5s and M3s are on the way, that could change the dynamic a bit, but this car on paper looks pretty good. Last i read the final hp number was 390, i hope they can pull it together to be a solid and reliable performer. Dollar for dollar, this is definately a winner, even if it is ugly.